Heard you yesterday on "To the Point" ... good job.

This will be fun - tune in to Fox and play talking points Bingo. They will spin out of control.

One hopes that this pattern of sliming will come back to bite the administration in the ass, and that people will see it for what it is. There are some truly nasty folks in the administration.

Great site, by the way. And good luck with your recovery.

So if the White House is going to slime Scowcroft, does that mean they're confident they don't need Poppy Bush's help to get out of the Plame mess? I'm a little surprised by this, unless it is a schism between POTUS and VPOTUS...

What about wilkenson (sp?) the former chief of staff to Colin Powell. He was on cspan today and was just brutal in his criticism of the whole iraq scam. Of course he was just as much a part of it, he just looked the other way.

Expect a book from him too.

Don't they have a better use of their time? I mean that quite seriously. Iraq, hurricane recovery, a new Supreme Court nominee to choose, coming indictments, yadda yadda yadda...

So top on their priority list is getting Brent Scowcroft? We obviously have too many people working at the White House.

Plus their attempt at screwing Joe Wilson didn't turn out so well...

Damn, I was sure the slimers were fully occupied with more important targets. Maybe the administration is outsourcing some of the sliming now?

The White House has to fight tooth and nail with anyone who is revealing their War Criminality. They are fighting against being in the category of some of the worst people in human history. They're gonna go down fighting the only way they know how.

dqueue: if you haven't noticed, the White House counsel has been a little busy lately meeting with senators. I doubt she's had much time to worry about Plamegate, or who she might need help from.

It looks like dqueue above may be right. This isn't garden variety WH Rovian sliming, this is open warfare of some kind.

Most likely between POTUS and VPOTUS, as dqueue and Steve's "Cheney fellow travelers" suggested.

More intriguing, and Shakespearean (not to mention Oedipal), but less likely, is that this is Bush's declaration of war against his daddy.

Steve -- If you get the talking points I hope you'll publish them verbatim so they can be disseminated quickly round the net. The more we can expose these slime ad campaigns the more we put in jeopardy those folks who like to think of themselves as journalists should the points show up unexamined in their articles and tv talk.

Steady Eddie, I think that war was declared a long time ago. Wasn't the whole Iraq thing about Dubya trying to show up Poppy? I remember thinking how strange it was that he was talking about Saddam during the 2000 campaign, when his father was the one who left the guy in power.

Do consider the possibility that this Cheney, rather than the White House, engaged in this. It's no longer the case that you can be sure they are speaking in one voice. And one way to read the Scowcroft piece is 41 reaching out to 43.

I don't have the document, but give me 5 minutes at PowerLine, and I can re-create it for ya'.

KCinDC -- yeah, but I was talking open warfare rather than implicit. Once it stopped being NotClinton, Dubya's whole administration has been one long NotPoppy exercise.

Now that it's blown up, with the far right for whom he could never do too much (NotReadMyLips) savaging and humiliating him on Miers, the interesting question is where Dubya turns now, especially as he doesn't have to face another election. I'd be surprised if he could overcome his lifelong residence in the land of adolescent, entitled narcissism, and submit to anyone else. That's why I'd be a little surprised if the Scowcroft sliming was Dubya dumping openly on Poppy -- at every other of the many failures in his life, he's always turned to Poppy to bail him out (most recently with Jim Baker in 2000 after Rove's California feint lost the actual election for Dubya).

where the hell were all of them during election year?
It's nice that they are CYA's now, but, they had an opportunity to get rid of Bush or at least make people think before they voted and they did not lift a finger.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see them try to lean on Scowcroft Group clients to abandon their business with him.

And I have to wonder whether there are still old enmities dating back to the Ford Administration between Scowcroft and Rumsfeld/Cheney.

Is that the correct spelling of Neece? I have a very strong memory that the neo-cons have a Michael Neece (sp?) in their ranks and that he is a behind-the-scenes player. I've read about him somewhere I know. It's driving me crazy.

Talking points for educating the American people about the traitor Scowcroft.

Please note: this e-mail has already been sent to all major corporate media outlets and they will eagerly second anything you say.

1. Scowcroft hates Jews

2. Scowcroft has refused to pledge allegiance to Ariel Sharon.

3. Scowcroft only has an American passport; not an Israeli one; therefore he is suspect.

4. Scowcroft wrote the "Chicken Kiev" speech.

5. Scowcroft and George Galloway both received payments for Saddam Hussein and Kofi Annan in the UN Oil for Food scam.

6. Scowcroft's son is gay.

7. Scowcroft's wife is a NOC CIA agent dealing with weapons of mass destruction.

After about three weeks of 24-7 saturation of the American people by our patriotic (corporate) media we will issue some new talking points in order to avoid message fatigue.

They attack their critics because it's what they do. It's not a choice, any more than breathing is a choice. Wilson, Richard Clarke, Kerry, now Scowcroft. It's the ONLY way they can think of to fight their opponents, probably because it's the only proven way to energize their hateful base.

the only Michael Neece that figures prominently in my Googling is a software engineer/interviewing consultant in Boston. No traceability to Washington or neocons that I can find.

So if the White House is going to slime Scowcroft, does that mean they're confident they don't need Poppy Bush's help to get out of the Plame mess?...Posted by: dqueue
---------
Just maybe Dubya's daddy has told his miserable failure of a son how pissed he is about this so the regime knows they'll never get any of Poppy's help on this.

With your sources saying to expect the indictments today, there are folks crumping on other blogs about you sources. "grain of salt" kind of statements. Any ideas why the sources were wrong?

There's a Michael Neese who's a major Philip Morris . . . oops, I mean ALTRIA, player . . . where have I seen that darn name???

All who oppose Dear Leader's will must be attacked. Their families must be attacked. Their pets must be attacked.

Anyone know if his wife is a CIA operative?

That's why I'd be a little surprised if the Scowcroft sliming was Dubya dumping openly on Poppy -- at every other of the many failures in his life, he's always turned to Poppy to bail him out (most recently with Jim Baker in 2000 after Rove's California feint lost the actual election for Dubya).

even though Poppy has been helping shrub out of big jams his entire life, Shrub doesn't see it that way -- rather, Shrub considers such help an absolute entitlement that he is due regardless of what kind of mess he makes of things.

And lets face it, Poppy will come to the rescue once again, not because he wants to reward Shrub for his incompetence, but because Poppy is a loyal American who realizes that absent adult supervision, Shrub can actually make things even worse for the US in the next three years.

Any ideas why the sources were wrong?

I don't think the sources were wrong. I'd be willing to wager that Fitzgerald changed his plans after talking to Luskin, because Rove is now willing to talk about virtually ANY subject to keep his fat ass from being plowed in a federal penetetiary.

Sources may be "wrong" because of the fluidity of situation- per RAWSTORY 2 potential indictees outside of WH are now negotiating plea agreements...

news changing too quickly for sources...but patience...remember no matter how badly you or I want to hear, there are folks for whom each minute must be excruiating.....

and if their sleep is disturbed, I sleep better

1. Scowcroft hates Jews

2. Scowcroft has refused to pledge allegiance to Ariel Sharon.

3. Scowcroft only has an American passport; not an Israeli one; therefore he is suspect.

4. Scowcroft wrote the "Chicken Kiev" speech.

5. Scowcroft and George Galloway both received payments for Saddam Hussein and Kofi Annan in the UN Oil for Food scam.

6. Scowcroft's son is gay.

7. Scowcroft's wife is a NOC CIA agent dealing with weapons of mass destruction.

What about the paedophilia? You forgot the paedophilia!

Next step is to slime Poppy himself, let's see:

- failed one-term President

- long-time supporter of Saddam

- head of CIA, well-known nest of liberals

- raised an incompetent alcoholic son

Karl, if you have time can you look over this ?
Otherwise just send it out to Fox etc

Wow will they ever learn? Don't start a fight with the CIA, you will always lose.

"...Poppy is a loyal American..."

If Poppy were a loyal American he would have kept Junior far away from the oval office.

The Scowcroft sliming shows that for the Bush White House, the war on Joe Wilson isn't the exception to the rule. It is the rule.

For the details, see:

"Bush, Wilson and the Politics of Payback."

What do you do with people that never learn? I mean, the whole reason they're in trouble right now is because they responded to criticism by sliming the critic. And they keep on doing it again and again. In fact, yesterday I read that one of the White House's main strategies post-PlameGate is to CONTINUE TO DISCREDIT JOSEPH WILSON.

We're running an insane asylum on Pennsylvania Avenue.

You guys are funny, do you seriously consider these thoughts or do you just try and outdo each other. Keep it coming I am on the floor laughing

My gosh what an extraordinary number of people with, to all appearances, perfectly sound credentials as Republicans, conservatives or right-of-center Democrats who have served Republican presidents turn out all along to have been treacherous backstabbing liberal extremists. So many self-seeking publicity hogs slavishly serving their secret Democratic overlords.

Truly, it is hard to understand how Bush's administration has survived after being infiltrated by so many highly placed and influential 5th columnists. They seem to have just been riddled with anti-Bush moles. I can only conclude God himself must want George W to be president. Otherwise how can we explain his preternatural ability to survive this long when surrended by a veritable snake pit of suberversion.

My two cents is that these indictments will be so much smoke. Libby getting burned and rove a slap on the wrist. Nothing is going to change. Face it- this is a distraction at best, and a media campaign to divert us from the real rot at worst. Of course I could be wrong.

p.lukasiak posted:
And lets face it, Poppy will come to the rescue once again, not because he wants to reward Shrub for his incompetence, but because Poppy is a loyal American who realizes that absent adult supervision, Shrub can actually make things even worse for the US in the next three years.

I venture that Poppy is reaching out to Dubya in order to save the Bush Crime Family from undue consequences; I don't feel he gives two shits about America. Shift the blame to that vile cabal of neocons... you know, the Cheney crowd. Spin Dubya as the clueless idiot he is and extract him from the problems at hand.

I don't feel he gives two shits about America. Shift the blame to that vile cabal of neocons... you know, the Cheney crowd.

yeah, that sounds right to me. These Bush's are so entitled they can't believe they are ever at fault for just being themselves.

I think that is right, dqueue. Need to leave things open for Jeb and George P. Give it a few years and the American people will have forgotten enough to be ready for another Bush, just like they were in 2000.

dqueue: I'm with you on this one. Besides, GHWB is going to need a few days to get over the World Series.

Well, a lot of people in the old Soviet Union were startled to learn how many leading Bolsheviks turned out to be secret saboteurs, wreckers, and agents of British imperialism.

These guys are the Stalinists brought back to life.

I think Brent Scowcroft is top notch. In reading some of Mr. Scowcroft's comments in the article, I can tell he's a very reasoned, measured and intelligent man. We have none of that in the White House. The fact that they shut him out scares me a lot. I'm a conservative Republican. I truly believe this White House has failed conservatives in America. We are now linked with this failed invasion of Iraq, where the excuse of WMD's and "terror" was used. We all know the rest of the story. The White House gets everything they deserve at this point.

I was just reading the New Yorker article this morning. The two comments I thought were most telling were regarding Cheney ("But Dick Cheney I don't know anymore.") and Scowcroft's twelve second pause when asked to name something on which he agrees with GWB.

Cheney seems to me to have undergone almost a full personality transformation while in office. How else to explain how even the hardest conservative could turn into the fascist that Cheney has become?

Regarding points of agreement with Bush, the pause is instructive of how much has changed in Washington in the last five years. Scowcroft along with Colin Powell practically personify the moderate foriegn policy practiced by this country, but both Rs and Ds since Truman. That our current foriegn policy has broken so fundamentally with that thread seems nearly surreal to me.