David Kelly continues to interest me. Maybe you can figure out why he decided to take his own life. (If he actually did.)

Give Frank Gaffney a big sloppy hug for me; he's keeping it real.

I always throw a P300 wave when I read or hear something Gaffney has said.

Gaffney is a living embodiment of a verbal glitch.

If you roll the Al Jazeera bombing memo up in little scrolls and slide them into emptied-out tampon wrappers and put them all back in the box, customs will never know. Hurry Back!

I think it might look suspicious for a guy to travel with tampons ;-)

There he sneaks out to attend David Cameron’s coronation on Tuesday! We’ll excommunicate you if you do!

When you are in London, be sure to check how the British tabloids call the European CIA prisons.

The word "prison" may not bring up pleasant images to Americans (The land of "Oz", the HBO TV show). But European newspapers have called these places "CIA camps", and trust me when I say that Europeans don't think "summer camp" when they hear that word. In fact, one respected paper had an editorial cartoon of a plane marked “CIA” flying though a metal gate reading "intelligence macht frei"....

This may sound insignificant, but I think Rice may have decided to chew of more than she can handle by going with the "we are all in this together, now shut up" angle. She may not have other options but still. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051203/wl_nm/security_europe_rice_dc)

She may be very right in expecting leaders to shut up. They haven't made a peep for years about this. The most detailed accounts of an "extraordinary rendition" flight come from eyewitness account broadcast on a Swedish TV station. (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/05/17/sweden8620.htm Hooded men with American accents, using scissors to cut clothes of shackled prisoners, diapers... fun stuff)

This was reported in may 2004

newspapers quickly filled in the details, human rights organizations have been reporting about this stuff for years. Not to long a go Italy asked for the extradition of the CIA agents involved in a ”kidnapping”in Italy. This follows a very public investigation (prosecutors love embarrassing Silvio- if Blair gets a bomber jack I want one to-Berlusconi). Earlier Germany and Sweden investigated the story of a kidnapped person and someone who was handed to the CIA and not seen for a while. But it is always said that the CIA would never take someone without the host country agreeing, or being Afghanistan.

One interesting tidbit, there has long been speculation about prisoners on Diego Garcia... which is a British island! Also the UK has been working to keep prisoners indefinitely. The UK currently takes the rotating presidency of the EU, meaning they might have an impact on how much problems Rice should initially expect with an answer that liberally translated reads “go f@#$ yourself”

But the European media wont let go of this. (try tuning in to German or French TV when in London) A respected European newspaper spend nearly an entire page on sightings of suspected aircraft. Naturally they also pointed out the many other reasons the US might fly its own planes around Europe instead of using commercial planes. With the NSA being the biggest intelligence agancy it speculates lots of flights might be NSA supplies. But even though the NSA has many big secrets, its personnel could in theory travel safely with normal airlines or military transport and not all its equipment is that sensitive.

Oh well, at least the podium was was designed with a plan.....

"In a news briefing from Iraq on Friday, Lt. Gen. Martin Dempsey, the top American military official in charge of training Iraqi troops, surprised some reporters by saying he first saw "Our Strategy for Victory in Iraq" when it was released to the public on Wednesday"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/politics/04strategy.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=1965451f230185f4&hp&ex=1133672400&partner=homepage

A warm welcome from our staunchest ally..

So where are these camps exactly? Are there photos? Are there first hand accounts from ex-employees or detainees? I'm from Missouri... well not really.

Rice is such a mafia ma... "Don't squeal or you'll swim with the fishes with us". Opps sorry to offend the mafia by comparing it to the she-demon.

Looking for information on the CIA 'camps'? You could do worse than look at the BBC reports:

CIA 'running secret terror jails'

Senate call for 'CIA jail' report

Spain probes 'secret CIA flights'

Nordic states probe 'CIA flights'

EU to query US secret prisons'

EU 'warned on secret CIA jails'

US civil rights groups to sue the CIA

CIA flights 'landed in Germany'

Steve,

Have you looked this one up in (Sunday’s) The Guardian?

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1657289,00.html

Excerpts:

Rice rejects EU protests over secret terror prisons

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will inflame the transatlantic row over America's alleged torture of terror suspects in secret jails by telling Foreign Secretary Jack Straw and other European officials to 'back off….

Rice's refusal to answer detailed questions on what has become known as 'extraordinary rendition' will anger many in Europe. Last week Straw wrote to Rice asking for clarification about ome 80 flights by CIA planes that have passed through the UK. European politicians and human rights groups claim the flights and use of a network of secret jails breach international law….

Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern said Rice told him in Washington she expected allies to trust that America does not allow rights abuses…

An unnamed European diplomat who had contact with US officials over the handling of the scandals told Reuters yesterday: 'It's very clear they want European governments to stop pushing on this...

They were stuck on the defensive for weeks, but suddenly the line has toughened up incredibly.'…

Andrew Tyrie, the Conservative MP who will be chairing a Commons committee of MPs along with Menzies Campbell, Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, has said Rice needs to make a clear statement. She 'does not seem to realise that for a large section of Washington and European opinion, the Bush administration is in a shrinking minority of people that has not grasped that lowering our standards [on human rights] makes us less, not more, secure'…

The row is set to escalate in Washington itself, as a US civil rights group says it is taking the CIA to court to stop the transportation of terror suspects to countries outside US legal authority…

Straw is also facing calls to allow MPs and human rights groups access to Diego Garcia, the British island in the Indian Ocean being used as a US military base. It has long been suspected that the island has been used to hold or transfer terror suspects to secret US jails.

Steve:

It's been noted that Colin Powell was present at the meeting between Bush and Blair where this issue was raised. Perhaps that would be a fruitful line of attack until the memo surfaces in the press.

If that's the case, Dan, then maybe Wilkerson would know something. Anyone know if he was present?

Will you be having a public get together, like in Prague?

Steve, have you seen the extensively annotated account by Chris Floyd of the use of Death Squads, currently in Iraq (and Colombia) and formerly in Central America? This is the nnitty-gritty of the way our government pursues "freedom" and "liberty" (especially for American corporations).

It may seem extreme and overstated, but I think the more one gets glimpses at "the man behind the curtain" (to use an analogy from the Wizard of Oz) the more credible it becomes.

http://tinyurl.com/b27hg

His concluding paragraph:

This bi-partisan policy has been remarkably consistent for more than half a century: to augment the wealth and power of the elite, American leaders have supported – or created – vicious gangs of killers and cranks to foment unrest, eliminate opponents and terrorize whole nations into submission. The resulting carnage in the target countries – and inevitable blowback against ordinary Americans – means nothing to these Great Gamesters; it's merely the price of doing business. Bush's "incompetence" is just a mask for stone-cold calculation.

FORMER US AMBASSADOR TO INDIA ALLEGES THAT THE MOSSAD KILLED PAKISTAN'S ZIA.

Antiwar.com in its Frontline section today (Sun. Dec. 4, 05) has an article from the Daily Times of Pakistan about an article in the World Policy Journal by Barbara Crousette (former South Asia Bureau Chief of the New York Times).

Crousette interviews John Gunther Dean, the American ambassador to India in 1988. Dean is convinced that the Mossad killed General Zia in the infamous plane crash that also killed the US ambassador to Pakistan. Dean claims Israel did this in an attempt to stop Pakistan's nuclear aspirations.

http://tinyurl.com/c8ofq

VERY INTERESTING READ in light of:

* the neo-cons ties to Israel

* Israel actively wanting the US to go into Syria in order to get the old Aqaba pipeline from Kirkuk to Haifa restarted.

* the Hariri killing and its UN investigator Mehlis ties to the La Belle discotheque bomb in Germany (which led to the US bombing Libya) and the recent recanting of Mehlis' witness, the one who pinned Hariri's death on Syria.

* Seymour Hersh and others' reports of Israeli agents infiltrating the Kurdish areas of Iraq, including Kirkuk, and training the Pershmenga (sp?)

* the Jordan bombings attributed to this mythical figure, Al Zarqawi "is he in heaven, is he in hell -- that damned illusive Zarqawi-ell" ;-)

Jordan subsequently experienced its own 9/11 (because it uses the British system of dates November 9 was 9/11 for them) and its populace is now more accepting of the idea of US intervention in the area to stop *tur-rism*

Much like the UK after the 7/7 bombings, and the US after 9/11 the government has used the Jordan blasts to crack down on civil rights. Hmmmm...

I wrote an article on Falllujah last year, during the US' November siege. In the course of writing it I communicated with witnesses on the ground, including embedded reporters, and read everything I could get my hands on about Al Zarqawi.

The people of Fallujah and many in Iraq, don't believe Zarqawi exists, rather they believe that he is a convenient bogeyman of the US and Israel.

The questions about the Jordan bombings remain: why target Palestinians, especially higher-ups in Palestinian intelligence about to meet with Chinese defense diplomats?

Why not use Jordanian fighters who according to the US are infiltrating Iraq (NOT) in their own country rather than import Iraqis?

Why do pictures of the blasts show a definite downward blast (believe it or not I majored in physics) Some of those blasts, as initially reported, came down from the ceiling.

And then there's the confusing testimony of the female bomber, paraded on TV with her bomb strapped on -- surely there are dumpsters in Jordan, or even alleys where she could have gotten rid of the *evidence* -- why did her story change each time she told it? Torture, anyone?

I watch Mosaic, news from the Middle East translated into English on Link TV (Dish network channel 9410, Direct TV Channel 375 I think) I would suggest anyone who truly wants to get a handle on the Middle East situation watch it as well. You can also stream it at:

www.linktv.org

And if anyone dare call me a *conspiracy theorist* I always point to the mother of all conspiracy theories, Junior's State of the Union Address in 2003.

That and the fact that so far I've been right about everything down to telling anyone who would listen about the Office of Special Plans in the Pentagon way back in 2002 and Feith's connection to Israel's Likud.

I was also right about the use of white phosphorus in Fallujah etc., etc., Always right, sigh ;-)

Hey HateBothParties,

I have been called, not just a “conspiracy theorist,” but names for mentioning the neocons’ and Likudniks’ well-documented scheme for the regime change in Iraq and the creation of a pro-Israeli “Kurdistan.” Of course we have no problem tearing apart our goofs who fell for that scheme. It’s funny that I’ve had robust and free-wheeling discussions about Israeli politics with Jewish friends in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, but if I tried to discuss Israeli policies with colleagues in American newsrooms, silence would immediately descend. An Israeli Peace Now activist once lamented to me that the main obstacle to their making peace with the Palestinians has been the American support for their jingoists.

The use of White Phosphorous is A-OK with me. Our armed forces can use any weapon or tool they want to kill the enemy from nuclear on down. If necessary. However many Marines we lost taking Fallujah, it was TOO many.
Here is a link that mentions USA use of "Willy Pete" in Fallujah:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm

More on Zia's death from the original article in the World Policy Journal. Again, the author is the former South Asia Bureau Chief of the NYT.

http://tinyurl.com/bon5m

Amazing Mustafa, isn't it -- that Israelis and their newspapers don't hold their government sacrosanct -- they argue about it constantly. Yet, if one dares mention the Israeli government and its US supporters' heinous designs for control of the Middle East while in the US one is immediately called an *anti-Semite* which doesn't work because:

1) Most Arabs are true Semites while most of the Jews ruling Israel and working on Israel's behalf in the US are European converts (Ashkenazi)
2) In my case, I'm married to a Jew so I guess I *sleep with the enemy* every night :-)

What I forgot to mention about the Jordan bombings was that the LA TIMES interviewed a former senior Israeli counter-terrorism official for the Israel Defense Forces, Amos N. Guiora, now at Case Western Reserve University in the US.

Guiora said that he had been informed that there was excellent Israeli intelligence that the bombings in Jordan would happen and his informants were inside Israel. Guiora questioned why Israelis were evacuated and Jordanians, etc., weren't.

Ha'aretz initially reported that Israelis were evacuated from hotels in Jordan then changed its story. Much like the 7/7 London warning to Netanyahu which was confirmed in a German publication by Israel's Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz AFTER Israeli papers changed their story.. thangs that make ya go HMMMMMMM....

Here's the URL for the LA TIMES article of Guiroa and his claims that Israel did know that hotels would be bombed in Jordan:
http://tinyurl.com/b9lmm

PEACE.

I have been called, not just a “conspiracy theorist,” but names for mentioning the neocons’ and Likudniks’ well-documented scheme for the regime change in Iraq and the creation of a pro-Israeli “Kurdistan.” Of course we have no problem tearing apart our goofs who fell for that scheme. It’s funny that I’ve had robust and free-wheeling discussions about Israeli politics with Jewish friends in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, but if I tried to discuss Israeli policies with colleagues in American newsrooms, silence would immediately descend. An Israeli Peace Now activist once lamented to me that the main obstacle to their making peace with the Palestinians has been the American support for their jingoists.

Posted by Mustafa

I lost an AOL account due to my posting on their message boards about my belief that there was an Israeli involvement in the collapse of the World Trade center. I have been called anti-semitic for posting links to news articles that describe the acts of espionage and the indictments of AIPAC members. I have been targeted with mass mailings of virus laden emails. In fact, since I have been posting here, I have since recieved a DAILY email laden with various viruses.

Anyone that thinks the links to the Israelis that the major players in the neocon and PNAC ranks have is just a COINCIDENCE is a God damned idiot. If you look at the major deceptions by the media that we have been fed to justify the invasion of Iraq, they invariably involve Israel if one digs deep enough. PARTICULARY if one looks at the NYT's propaganda campaign, and Miller's role and history. I honestly think that the Niger fiasco will eventually, if the truth ever sees the light of day, expose a strong ISRAELI involvement.

I've been learning all kinds of good stuff since I recently started subscribing to Dr. Jack Wheeler at http://www.tothepointnews.com/ . Action Jack says that Bush's secret nickname for Condi is 44. As in Bush elder was 41, Clinton 42, GWB #43 and Condi 44.
I think Bush is going to try and talk Condi into running in '08. Not a big Condi fan, but she is pro gun rights and I could swallow that medicine if that is what it took to stop Hillary. Having said that, my pick so far is George Allen or Cheney.

The use of White Phosphorous is A-OK with me. Our armed forces can use any weapon or tool they want to kill the enemy from nuclear on down.

Posted by Robert Morrow (neocondan)

OK, I'll remember that the next time you blather some bullshit about us invading Iraq because of humanitarian reasons.

Pissed Off,

I really think you are in La-La land if you think Israel OR the USA govt. had involvement in the terrorist plane attacks on the WTC. I don't mind conspiracy theories, but you need to be selective in which ones you believe. As in having solid evidence. - R.

We would be fools to invade Iraq for solely humanitarian reasons. We did it so a billionaire dictator could not attack us someday in good ole USA. That is humanitarian enough for me. If he happened to be sitting on a pile of oil, even better.

I've been learning all kinds of good stuff since I recently started subscribing to Dr. Jack Wheeler at http://www.tothepointnews.com/ . Action Jack says that Bush's secret nickname for Condi is 44. As in Bush elder was 41, Clinton 42, GWB #43 and Condi 44.
I think Bush is going to try and talk Condi into running in '08. Not a big Condi fan, but she is pro gun rights and I could swallow that medicine if that is what it took to stop Hillary. Having said that, my pick so far is George Allen or Cheney.

Posted by Robert Morrow

Anyone that thinks the satanistic fascist Cheney stands a chance of winning the presidency, in a FAIR uncorrupted election, after this Iraq fiasco, is a blathering idiot.

But I will agree with you that the lying treasonous son of a bitch might well replace Bush as dictator, after they stage another "trifecta" and institute the powers that the Patriot Act was designed to give them.

Then, we won't be DEBATING with treasonous fascists like yourself. We will be exchanging fire with you on the streets of America.

Can't happen here??? Well, I didn't think our Executive Branch would ever condone, practice, and justify torture, either. Or invade a soveriegn nation illegally. Or entertain homosexual whores in the White House. Or throw sound science in the toilet to be replaced with theocratical folklore.

Then again, I never thought I would see the day a coke sniffing dry drunk AWOL half wit would sit in the Oval Office waiting for his mommy to come rescue him, either.

Robert Morrow.....

This idiot accuses me of being in La-La land then goes on to post that he sees Cheney as viable presidential candidate. All this after posting that it is OK for the United States to have used chemical weapons in Fallujah. Now, I ask you, who the hell is in La-La land here?

BTW, I apologize to the forum for engaging the troll. I will ignore it henceforth. Gads, they piss me off. What a pathetic state of affairs when it takes a legion of abominable internet ASSES to advance the defense of a President of the United States.

Funny,isn't it, that everybody on this board, who is against war in Iraq, is so obviously antisemetic (anti-Israeli, same difference)
Alina

Only in this mixed up world can a post against a conservative government on a progressive blog be labeled racial. A government currently indicted with spying activites at high levels in the US government.

While I don't believe the conspiracy theories of 9/11 and the Israelis jumping in celebration, it's hard to believe they don't have some operations going in Iraq. If a healthy discussion of the Iraeli government were allowed to occur, maybe people wouldn't be as tempted to move to extreme accusations.

The trouble with Hillary is that while she's locking up a lot of the high level democratic funds, she's the poster child of what people don't like about federal Democrats. And I don't think she can carry the west. California is already leaning more conservative and the liberals aren't at all impressed with her.

A McCain/Condi ticket would sweep the conservative base, moderates, and a good share of liberals. Democrats need to go outside the party faithful and bring in someone with a history of actual leadership.

Will someone in a Democratic Party leadership position put Kerry on a shorter leash.

His response to Bush's was abominable.

There's a huge difference between being against the actions of a government, and holding some kind of prejudice against the people of the country that government rules.

So please never confuse the very obvious involvement of Israel's government, and its operatives (Feith, Perle, Wolfowitz, Abrams, Libby, Kissinger , ad nauseam) in the US, with Jews in general.

Or are you accepting that Israel is a Jewish state (as self-stated) and her operatives will lie, cheat, steal and kill to make sure that Jews come out on top?

Didn't think so...but the more the *anti-Semite* charge is hurled at anyone who dare criticize Israel the more people start to think that Jews have something very nasty to hid and that they're all in it together -- do you really want that?

It would be better to lay everything out on the table --especially when confronted by the evidence of AIPAC spies, the Office of Special Plans and Sholmo Brom's study at the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv (Israel) University.

Brom, the former head of intelligence for the Israel Defense Forces and a retired Brigadier General, found in the study that Israel deliberately misled the US about Iraq's WMD to get the US to invade Iraq.

Here's an AP article on Brom's study:

http://tinyurl.com/8ee2f

But back to hating the people rather than the government of a country -- let's take a for instance: Americans are hated now around the world because of the actions of our government -- that's plain old wrong as many Americans, like myself, did all in our power to stop the invasion of Iraq.

So can the cr*p -- the less honest the dialogue about Israel and her operatives, the more the US heads to her doom. We need to talk about the Project for the New American Century, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (BTW: Ken Blackwell of Ohio election infamy sits on its board) the American Enterprise Institute, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and its espionage, etc.

Choose, all of you. I'm an immigrant and I chose the US: I no longer have citizenship in the country of my birth. Now you choose: after all you do get citizenship automatically in the *democracy* called Israel if your mother is a Jew. DUAL citizenship for many of our Congress people -- Lieberman springs immediately to mind.

Putin jailed some of the Russian oligarchs, most of whom were Jews according to the Carnegie Institue. That is Putin jailed the ones who hadn't already fled to Israel -- he jailed them for their double dealings. Yet Feith, Perle and Wolfowitz walk free...

These dual loyalties have no place anymore, but that obscures the real point -- that we are all citizens of the world and must act accordingly to ensure our mutual survival. And NO country's government should be sacrosanct.

While I don't believe the conspiracy theories of 9/11 and the *Israelis jumping in celebration....

Posted by Dons Blog

*Its documented fact. Even Fox News carried the story, only to scrub it and threaten to sue anyone that provided links to their original story. Here......

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

Meanwhile, Morton Halperin at democracyarsenal has an update on what John Bolton's been up to since his famous 'revision' of the Millenium Summit document in September. Curious to see how this chimes with the Prospect's new piece coming out sometime next week..

“Crousette interviews John Gunther Dean, the American ambassador to India in 1988. Dean is convinced that the Mossad killed General Zia in the infamous plane crash that also killed the US ambassador to Pakistan. Dean claims Israel did this in an attempt to stop Pakistan's nuclear aspirations.”

HateBothParties,

Thanks for the link. I just read the piece. That’s very interesting because (to follow up on the "conspiracy theory") Gen. Zia himself supposedly had overthrown and killed Pakistani Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto at the behest of the CIA! And the reason was allegedly the same: to stop Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program.

Read Benazir Bhutto’s autobiography “The Daughter of Destinty” in which Ms. Bhutto says her father, before his execution, had said Henry Kissinger, having failed to persuade him to drop his nuclear program, had warned that he (Zulfikar Ali Bhutto) was going to “make a horrible example” of defiance of the United States. Ever since Z.A. Bhutto was suspecting something could happen to him. Benazir Bhutto points to Gen. Zia’s visit to the U.S. ambassador just about 12 hours before his July 5, 1977, coup that toppled her father from power!

HateBothParties,

I forgot to mention that Pakistani Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto also mentioned Kissinger’s threat to him in his (Bhutto’s) conversations with his friends and repeated it in his own autobiographical account, written from death row, entitled “If I Am Assassinated.”

Here’s one reference: “He [i.e., Kissinger] told me that I should not insult the intelligence of the United States by saying that Pakistan needed the reprocessing plant for her energy needs. In reply, I told him that I will [sic] not insult the intelligence of the United States by discussing the energy needs of Pakistan, but [by] the same token, he should not discuss the plant at all.” (Page 138)

Kissinger’s threat to make “a horrible example of you” probably appears in another part of the book (which I can’t locate now) but is in Benazir Bhutto’s “Daughter of Destiny,” which I don't have right now, and floating all over the Internet.

My grandfather was a high-up British official in Karachi, Pakistan back when it was part of India, so my dad knows his way around Pakistan, India and Afghanistan and the languages involved --as such we follow Musharraf of Pakistan as well as everything that happens in India with interest because this is all interlinked:

* Bin Laden -- CIA asset in Afghanistan. Supported by the US (including Democrats like Carter) in order to bring the USSR down.

* Bin Laden responsible for the toppling of the WTC and attacking the Pentagon UNHINDERED AND IMMEDIATELY IDed as the culprit (yeah ,right ;-) conveniently enough unleashing the Project for the New American Century's plan as outlined by their Sept. 2000 document "Rebuilding America's Defenses" which called for a new "Pearl Harbor" that would enable US and Israel to dominate the Middle East.

* Bin Laden DISAPPEARED -- a very tall man, the most wanted man in the world on dialysis just VANISHES. Will wonders never cease...

The neo-cons were stoooopid enough to post their master-plan on their own website:

www.newamericancentury.org

Even stooopider was Feith, Perle and the Wurmsers co-authoring "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" for Netanyahu back in 1996, the friggin' game plan the US is following now in the Middle East, all to benefit Israel.

Will Mushareff be assassinated? It's entirely possible given the attempts, but who will be the assassins? CIA- MOSSAD? Islamists? I vote for the former.

Mustafa, I'm with you: there is way more to the whole of this than meets the eye. Even that former leftist Christopher Hitchens admits that the India/Pakistan conflict is the most dangerous in the world. They both have nuclear (nuklor) weapons, and they are constantly at dagger's edge.

Throw Israel into the mix and ...World War III. One war that no one will ever *win*

As I tell my journalism interns, just get the facts ma'am -- ( Actually I don't add "ma'am" because some of them are males ;-)

"A-Mur-Cur" needs the facts more than ever. And we need to divorce our foreign policy from Israel's. That could not be more urgent because we all may well die if we keep on the neo-cons' path.

My grandfather was a high-up British official in Karachi, Pakistan back when it was part of India, so my dad knows his way around Pakistan, India and Afghanistan and the languages involved --as such we follow Musharraf of Pakistan as well as everything that happens in India with interest because this is all interlinked:

* Bin Laden -- CIA asset in Afghanistan. Supported by the US (including Democrats like Carter) in order to bring the USSR down.

* Bin Laden responsible for the toppling of the WTC and attacking the Pentagon UNHINDERED AND IMMEDIATELY IDed as the culprit (yeah ,right ;-) conveniently enough unleashing the Project for the New American Century's plan as outlined by their Sept. 2000 document "Rebuilding America's Defenses" which called for a new "Pearl Harbor" that would enable US and Israel to dominate the Middle East.

* Bin Laden DISAPPEARED -- a very tall man, the most wanted man in the world on dialysis just VANISHES. Will wonders never cease...

The neo-cons were stoooopid enough to post their master-plan on their own website:

www.newamericancentury.org

Even stooopider was Feith, Perle and the Wurmsers co-authoring "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" for Netanyahu back in 1996, the friggin' game plan the US is following now in the Middle East, all to benefit Israel.

Will Mushareff be assassinated? It's entirely possible given the attempts, but who will be the assassins? CIA- MOSSAD? Islamists? I vote for the former.

Mustafa, I'm with you: there is way more to the whole of this than meets the eye. Even that former leftist Christopher Hitchens admits that the India/Pakistan conflict is the most dangerous in the world. They both have nuclear (nuklor) weapons, and they are constantly at dagger's edge.

Throw Israel into the mix and ...World War III. One war that no one will ever *win*

As I tell my journalism interns, just get the facts ma'am -- ( Actually I don't add "ma'am" because some of them are males ;-)

"A-Mur-Cur" needs the facts more than ever. And we need to divorce our foreign policy from Israel's. That could not be more urgent because we all may well die if we keep on the neo-cons' path.

I rest my case.
Alina

http://www.planetquo.com/Serving-Two-Flags

Most Arabs are true Semites while most of the Jews ruling Israel and working on Israel's behalf in the US are European converts (Ashkenazi)
In my case, I'm married to a Jew so I guess I *sleep with the enemy* every night :-)

HateBothParties

Uh....you might want to check who you are sleeping with. European converts?
Me thinks you are fabricating and pontificating.

Hey HateBothParties,

I could guess from your comments that you’re very knowledgeable about my native subcontinent (I was born in India and lived and worked two decades in Pakistan and Bangladesh.). I didn’t know that your father was a high official in Pakistan! By the way, I’ve just found one of the many places in which Kissinger’s threat to Zulfikar Ali Bhutto is quoted: “Daughter of Destiny,” p. 95. You may be wondering why I’m so interested in the question of a U.S. link to the anti-Bhutto coup, which Ambassador John Gunther Dean’s revelations revives powerfully in my mind. My mentor, Nurul Amin, was Pakistan’s eighth prime minister under whom Bhutto served briefly as deputy prime minister. And I had met and interviewed Bhutto rather frequently when he was foreign minister.

The day Gen. Zia overthrew Bhutto in a military coup, many of us who had known about Bhutto’s bitter feud with Kissinger over the nuclear issue and Kissinger’s ominous threat to him, suspected the Pakistani prime minister may be on his way to becoming the “horrible example” that K had vowed to make of him. Gen. Zia’s meeting with the U.S. ambassador in Islamabad the day before the coup (It was extraordinary for an army chief of staff to pay a “social” visit to the U.S. ambassador) seemed to bear out our suspicion. Now Ambassador Dean’s suggestion that Mossad may subsequently have bumped off Zia himself is, for me, déjà vu all over again. Bhutto may be smiling in his grave!

I’m familiar with “A Clean Break,” the PNAC, and the rest, but am afraid that the neocons and their fellow-travelers are probably a greater threat to the security and well-being of Israel and America than they are to the adversaries of the two countries. Their prescription for America and Israel: Live by the sword. I can’t bar to think of the outlook!

Seriously, did any of you have to take a basic genetics class in high school? Blue eyes are the result of recessive genes. How many Arabs, who have lived in the *holy land* for millennia, have blue eyes?

Blue eyes are (surprise, surprise) found in the ruling class of Israel and their supporters in the US. Ashkenazi Jews ARE SMARTER THAN THE REST OF US including Sephardic Jews-- please read this article in New York magazine.

Here' s the URL

http://tinyurl.com/8opfp

I don't think we're allowed to *attack* other posters on this site (which should be the case) but please, do your homework -- go to Israel and see how *dark* Jews are treated as opposed to *light* Jews.

Then look at how *Israeli* Arabs are treated -- Israeli Arabs are SO SPECIAL because they get to live on the land their ancestors lived on but yet are fourth class citizens in their own country.

Then see Gaza or the West Bank and the apartheid wall. I have been to Auschwitz and Birkenau: Israel is doing to the Palestinians what was done to the Jews but the bottom line is this -- Arabs and Muslims had NOTHING to do with the Jewish Holocaust yet they are suffering terribly, and by your posts you're making sure everyone who reads them gets that little kernel of Jew-hatred in them.

Honestly, you destroy yourselves and then blame others. The proof is there about how Israel egged on the invasion of Iraq -- just look at who is involved (as well as how the Jews allied to Israel have affected America) in the Project for the New American Century, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, the American Enterprise Institute, etc.

Don't be your own worst enemy, because the rest of the smart people in the world are waking up and will no longer buy the sob story, especially if it involves us losing our kids to Israel's endless wars.

Mustafa, you and I should probably have a long sitdown with copious amounts of tequila involved --or tea if you're devout -- I'm a Catholic so will drink Christ's blood - that's a JOKE.

More than anything else, I hate war. But it's greed that leads to war, and these wars are all about Israel.

I have had five friends serve in Iraq --this invasion alone. Four of them twice. One was my maid-of-honor, one was my best friend from college, two were my ex-students. All came back damaged. Really damaged.

The last one, a 38 year old Marine, is out of of control -- last year he dumped his Christmas gifts on the ground while screaming about the Iraqis he'd killed, including a young woman.

So, let's analyze this, first stopping at the Pentagon. Franklin, Feith, Wolfowitz, Perle, Luti, Abrams, then Rosen and Weissman -- ALL ALLIED TO ISRAEL.
ALL WANTING TO INVADE IRAN (OR SYRIA -- THEY LURV TO KEEP US DUM*A*SES GUESSING...)

Based on the evidence from her operatives, it's obvious that SWEDEN WANTS US TO INVADE IRAN!!!!

SWEDEN CONTROLS THE US CONGRESS WHICH IS WHY THERE ARE SO MANY SWEDES IN CONGRESS EGGING US ON TO INVADE NORWAY AND FINLAND.

I rest my case ;-)

HateBothParties,

I’m sorry to hear about your friends’ ordeal in Iraq! Sure, let’s meet, and I will share with you my unforgettable memories of Iraq and the Iraqis. Well, if you’re a Catholic, we will get along fine. I’m married to an Irish Catholic, and Catholic University is one of my favorite haunts. Please e-mail me at mmalik41@comcast.net or call me at (301) 772-1477. I hope Steve won’t mind our using this threat for this personal appointment.

Good night.
Mustafa Malik

Here's my street cred:
I'm a recovering Unitarian now channelling Bob for the Church of the Subgenius sunday through saturday.
One day eight, I moderate a secret Manechian bingo game and organize their flea market/bar-b-que/quilt making.
Last thursday's of each month are devoted to Washington (end)Times decoding sessions at Dennys and sending our findings to The RAND people. We sit in the John Nash booth and drink coffee only from styrofoam cups. It loosens up the decoding chi.
I can't talk about my involvment with Fung Shui Club nor Fight Club.

So obviously we can conclude, some tired assed, antiquated Abrahamic Inspired Religious Philosophy of one sort or another is in control of my neo cortex (i.e. New Brain Bark, or if you prefer neocon-ese Pile Your Mind Higher). Which, of course, is causing me to support this war while concurrently opposing it. Or in other parlance, I voted for it before I voted against it (or vice versa). Or, the ever erudite If you're with us you're against us too. Or perhaps, I straddle the exclude middle.

Genetically speaking, I look out at the world with one blue eye, one brown eye, one pink eye, one inner eye, and one lazy eye and see Caligula slouching towards DC. Result of a high school genetics lab experiment that wouldn't have squeaked by the Go/No Go meeting had Gregor Mendel been supervising. Go figger the genetic extravaganza; a watershed for counting cards, freaking out street performers, and seeing oneself in Pablo Ruiz y Picasso portraits.

Off to bingo calling. You should see what those crusty ol' Manechians do to the losers.

Remember, the center continues to hold due to bingo, quilt making, and fung shui.

Alina--

Normally I'm not one for ad hominem debate, but there's simply no way to put it other than "you suck." Accusing people of anti-semitism for opposing Israel's foreign policy is roughly akin to accusing people of hating black people for believing O.J. was guilty.

Kara:
By believing OJ was guilty you applied same standards as to any other defendant. By despising
Israeli policies you conviniently forget about host of other countries, whose record is worse than Israel's (to put it mildly).
Different yardsticks applied to Israel-thats the core of racism and anti-semitism.
Alina

"Different yardsticks applied to Israel-thats the core of racism and anti-semitism."

If the policy is broke, you must revoke.

You've made accusations Alina, not a case. My guess is that you're more interested in trolling than actually joining a discussion.

You've also broadly painted everyone on this board that is against occupation in Iraq as anti-semitic, an accusation I resent.

POA, i chose my example on purpose. Michael Rivero has accused the Israelis of everything from importing the West Nile Virus to causing the common cold. It would be nice to find a middle ground where we could openly discuss all sides of the Middle East issue.

POA, i chose my example on purpose. Michael Rivero has accused the Israelis of everything from importing the West Nile Virus to causing the common cold. .

Posted by Dons Blog

Yeah, well, I can't seem to shake these sniffles this morning. AaaaaaaCHOOOOOO!

Danged zionists. They musta got me in my sleep.

Well, golly. Heres an Iranian C-130, full of fuel, that hits a ten story apartment building. Guess what? The building is still standing. They must build 'em better in Tehran than we do in, uh, New York, eh?

Anyone see the picture of the Taiwanese high rise that just burnt a couple months ago??? What was left after it burned completely??? The steel framework. Good thing they didn't use AMERICAN steel, eh???

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/06/D8EAQEL81.html

EVIDENCE IMPLICATING ISRAEL IN THE 9/11 ATTACKS:

9/11 was masterminded by those involved with the neoconservative organization Project for a New American Century (PNAC), an organization that includes Bush's vice president Dick Cheney as well as most of Bush's defense department at the time of 9/11. It's basically a deal between the neocons and the Bush family. Prior to 9/11, PNAC had publicly stated the need for "a new Pearl Harbor" to galvanize support for its agenda.

The neoconservatives are mostly Jews with close connections to the Israeli government and to the hawkish, right-wing Likud party in Israel. They want US invasions of Iraq, Iran, and Syria, and the broader effect of increased sympathy for Israel that a suicide attack on American soil would bring. With their close connections to Israel they are basically able to subcontract out all the dirty work to the Mossad.

Why President Bush and others in the Bush administration are willing to go along with this plot is not entirely clear, though it is likely that they had a geopolitical interest in the Central Asian oil (possibly to build a pipeline through Afghanistan).

The explanation for the presence of the alleged hijackers in America is that they are part of a drug smuggling operation. They are involved in bringing opium grown by the Taliban in Afghanistan (which produces 75% of the world's opium) into Florida (one of the main entry points for drugs coming into the US). The infamous flight schools in Florida are fronts operated by Dutch and German organized crime elements.

The basic idea is to frame these drug smugglers for a major terrorist attack. This is done by a several hundred-man Mossad operation generally referred to as the "Israeli art student spy ring", after the fact that it was first detected in the months before 9/11 when some of its members posed as art students and attempted to penetrate Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) bases by pretending to be selling art. This was likely done to get dirt on the Arabs they want to frame (since the Arabs are drug smugglers).

The Israeli art students choose suitable patsies and begin surveiling them and impersonating them to frame them for the attacks. These Israelis are known to have tracked all 19 of the alleged hijackers. It has been suggested that the Israelis used Egyptian and Yemeni-born Jews who look like Arabs and speak fluent Arabic to "penetrate" "al-Qaeda cells". Israel was caught trying to set up a fake "al-Qaeda" cell in Palestine in 2002, and it is possible they used similar means to infiltrate the Arab drug smuggling network.

There are a number of accounts of Atta having been in two places at once, and the FBI is blatantly lying about when Atta was in Venice, FL. It has also been reported that according to Atta's girlfriend Amanda Keller, Atta is able to speak Hebrew, a peculiar ability for an Arab (see the book Welcome to Terrorland by Daniel Hopsicker). Most likely, one of the Attas is an Israeli spy.

When the video of Nick Berg being beheaded was released, it was reported that the FBI had previously questioned Berg because Zacarias Moussaoui had sent emails from Berg's computer. Nick Berg had quite an interesting story. He travelled all around the United States, attending four different universities, and had lived in Africa before going to Iraq to do telecommunications as an independent contractor. After Berg was unable to actually get this work he decided to stay in Iraq anyway, travelling around unsupervised for no apparent reason. Berg had visited Israel just before beginning work in Iraq and had been detained for several weeks by the US government just prior to his disappearance. Given Berg's antics in Iraq, it seems likely that Berg was working for Mossad, and that while he was in the United States he was part of the operation that framed the Arabs for 9/11 (i.e., he sent the emails himself to help frame Moussaoui). This incident gives us some insight into how the frame-up was actually done.

A number of the Israeli art students are reported as having experience in "explosive ordnance units". These are the people who planted the explosives that brought down the WTC buildings.

Larry Silverstein signed a 99-year lease on the WTC less than a month before 9/11 and increased the insurance in the event of a terrorist attack. After 9/11, Silverstein attempted to sue the insurance companies for twice the value of the WTC, claiming that because two planes hit he should be covered for two attacks. Silverstein is a close friend of many prominent Israeli leaders, including Ariel Sharon, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Ehud Barak. It is likely that the 9/11 attacks occurred with his knowledge and support.

The Zim American-Israeli Shipping Company announced its plans to move out of the WTC in April 2001 and officially moves out on Sept. 4th, 2001, although several of its employees are still in the building on 9/11, but manage to escape alive. Zim broke its lease and paid a $50,000 fine in order to leave the WTC early. It is almost certain that the company had advance knowledge of the attacks.

It's unclear exactly who piloted the planes, but the maneuvers executed by the pilots (especially by the pilot who crashed into the Pentagon) were well outside the abilities of the alleged hijackers, who were notoriously inept pilots and had only trained on small Cessna planes, never on jet airliners. The real pilots almost certainly had experience as fighter pilots, and were likely ex-Israeli Air Force pilots. It is interesting to note that one of tne of the passengers on Flight 11 was Daniel Lewin, a former member of the Sayeret Matkal, Israel's most elite commando unit, and that early reports on the day of 9/11 included a shooting involving this passenger.

On 9/11, five Israeli men masquerading as Arabs are arrested by the FBI after eyewitnesses reported seeing them filming the collapsing WTC towers and dancing in celebration. At least two of the Israelis arrested worked for the Mossad.

Several prominent Israelis and American Zionists point out that the 9/11 attacks will help Israel. Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said of the attack, "It's very good... Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy".

After 9/11, claims of an obviously false theory that "none of the Jews showed up to work at the WTC on 9/11" are given widespread currency by the mainstream media. This is done to ridicule the idea of Israeli involvement in 9/11 inoculate the public against paying attention to the very real evidence for the involvement of Israelis and American Zionists in the attacks.

According to the CNN website, which broke down the people killed in the 9/11 attacks by nationality , only three ISRAELIS, not JEWS, ISRAELIS were killed.

The 4000 Jews receiving a warning is a false flag -- just look at the actual ISRAELIS killed, not Jews.

One was killed in the WTC -- he was visiting a friend in the Towers, and another two were killed on the planes. One of those was Lewin.

I worked in the WTC when I was very young and I would have to say that the fact that more people from countries that really don't have a huge presence in international finance, like Honduras, were killed in the WTC on 9/11 than Israelis, who are players in international finance, is really suspicious.

Then there's that warning of the 9/11 attack that Odigo, the Israeli instant message company received about two hours before the attack. The Washington Post reported on the mysterious Odigo warning, as well as other papers. Find the Post's article for yourself -- it should be still on the web.

And then there's the neo-cons and their long-standing and VERY close ties to Israel.

Check it out, because, after all, the only truly precious thing you have to lose if Israel manages to bribe/threaten/coerce and lie Congress into invading Iran and Syria, is the lives of your children.

Those lil' tots whose faces are glowing in anticipation of Christmas or whatever holiday you celebrate... You owe it to your kids to inform yourself about our government and Israel's governments' plans for their future. By which I mean their future DEATHS.

WWI drew in the world in a matter of weeks, with a net result of a huge porportion of the world dead within four years. DO NOT THINK IT CANNOT HAPPEN AGAIN BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING NOW.

Divorce Israel from US foreign policy and then we will have a peaceful chance for our kids, grandkids, and heck -- ourselves!

"Kara:
By believing OJ was guilty you applied same standards as to any other defendant. By despising
Israeli policies you conviniently forget about host of other countries, whose record is worse than Israel's (to put it mildly).
Different yardsticks applied to Israel-thats the core of racism and anti-semitism.
Alina"

Countries like Uzbekistan and Saudi Arabia (who, btw, are our allies)? Certainly not. This argument is horribly logically flawed. Are you saying that we cannot judge one nation's foreign policy--any nation's--that is not the very worst? That's the equivalent of saying that there is no crime but murder.

Also, there is no logical link between not caring for Israeli foreign policy and hating Jews. THAT statement's equivalency is "disliking Nazi Germany = hating Germanic people," or "disliking Chinese foreign policy = hating Chinese," etc., etc. Well, I don't care for any of these policies, and I don't have anything against any ethnic group.

I do apply a different yardstick to Israel than I do for many other countries, but it's the same yardstick that I apply to the U.S., the U.K., Australia, France, Germany, etc. This is because Israel is a first-world technocratic democracy, with sewage treatment and low poverty rates and proper education. It isn't being led by some warlord. That's not racism--that's the higher standard that we should hold ALL democracies to if we're going to insist that the rest of the world democratize. If the U.S. is going to claim the high moral ground, then we should insist on certain ethics from our allies. And we shouldn't ally with countries whose leaders boil people alive (i.e., Uzbekistan). That's not anti-Semitism, it's common sense.