While the prospect of renewed negotiations would be a monumental achievement, Erekat's op-ed is also gesturing at the (often undiscussed) economic security of the Palestinians. Even should negotiations resume on April 17th, there are a number of still difficult issues (East Jerusalem, right of return, water security, etc)that would take months and perhaps years of negotiation during which time the Palestinian people's economic plight grows more dire by the hour. The key failing of Oslo was protracted negotiations that stalled with spats of violence all the while the Palestinian economy continued to contract. And when the Palestinian people felt their lives simply were not improving under the economic yoke of the peace process, there was little reason to continue on that track. Likewise, even should Hamas give up the one bullet in its gun, literally, by aceding to a negotiation process that would require some sort of temporary ceasefire or even disarmerment, how will they possibly be able to deliver economic security in the short term to a population where World Bank figures reveal nearly 50% of the population lives below the poverty line ($2/day)and more than half the gdp/peron is supplied by foreign aid?

An important part of the discussion needs to be how this round will be different in terms of economic security because Palestinians have been down that road many times. And if this round of negotiations proceeds under the humiliating backdrop of helplessness in the face of rising poverty and unemployment rates, it will collapse just as easily as Oslo did in or the Roadmap in 2003. All parties will have foreclosed on any hope for a real peace process before negotiations even begin, and this will most certainly reify the Israeli right's argument that there is no one with whom to negotiate.

Per the NYT this morning, the supposed military leader of Islamic Jihad was blown up by an explosion of (cough) unknown origin. Imho, any plan for an Israeli/Palestinian peace and that old canard that the Palestinians can't get a grip on security will soon be trotted out.

The US and Israel are great external whipping posts for oppressive Muslim countries. I'm beginning to think the Palestinians are Israel's whipping post, too politically useful to ever let go.

Israel does not want peace with the Palestinians. It is never going to happen. Israel needs to slowly and ever so slowly torture the life out of the Palestinians. Israel will steal the Palestinian land one foot at a time. Israel will slowly wall the Palestinian people inside a nifty concentration camp and sit back and watch the Palestinian people starve to death while the Palestinians wallow in abject filth. Israel needs their strawdog villians or how else could Israel justify their apartheid.

Erekat is a proven liar and political hack. He was constantly on CNN a few years ago during the Israeli incursion into Palestinian villages after a wave of suicide bombings and lied his head off about a number of issues not the least of which was the "massacre" that never took place. As long as Hamas is part of the government there can be and will be no negotiations. The Palestinian people are going to have to learn that there is price to pay for the election of killers and murders of unarmed civilians, what is globally known as terrorists,to positions of power.And if that means financial deprivation they have no one to blame but themselves. It is an old truism that people get the government they deserve. As for Abbas, he is not in a positon to either make demands of Hamas or to force them to abide by any peace accords. In that he is, as characterized, irrelevent.Unless Hamas publicly renounces ALL of its previously stated positions regarding Israel there will be and should not be any negotiations.And if that makes the Palestinian people regret their decision then Abbas can call for new elections and they can get rid of Hamas. The Palenstinian people have NO claim on any entitlements.They are not entitled to any kind of foreign aid, only that which the givers want to give. And that aid can be cut off any time and will be. It has become axiomatic that anyone supporting terrorists are themselves terrorists. The election of Hamas, a terrorist organization has put the Palestinian people in the position of being terrorists themselves based on the accepted parameters of how terrorism is treated. Obviously the murders carried out by Hamas didnt deter the Palesitnians from electing them.Cutting off all but humanitarian aid will send a message that they made a mistake.

There also is a very simple idea that seems to escape most people when the issue of Israeli-Palestinian negotions are brought up and its this: Ever since the creation of the state of Israel Arab forces have tried to destroy Israel and claim that land for themselves. They started a war in 1947, they started another war in 1956, again in 1967 and another in 1973. Each war was started by the Arabs and each war was won by the Israelis including the Six Day War in which six arab countries launched a simultaneous surprise attack against Israel and were defeated and destroyed in six days. Which prompts the question, since when does the instigator and loser of a war( not to mention FOUR wars) get to dictate the terms under which there will be peace? Jordan attacked Israel from the Palestinian territories in 1967 with the full support of the Palestinians and they lost big time. Thats why the Israelis are still there -- for security purposes. Everyone seems to forget that all of this is the result of the wars started by Arab interests and they seem to forget the fact that the Arabs lost each time. If they had won, Israel today wouldnt exist. But they didnt win. And its only because of Israel's desire to simply live within its own state and not expand, that the territores captured during those wars have been for the most part, returned. Israel has every right to negotiate as the victors of these wars and to lay down non-negotiable terms that meet their own criteria for their security. As for Erekats comments about simply waiting until they are in a population majority,if Erekat or anyone else actually believes that they can cause a shift in the balance of power in Israel through Israeli elections because of a population shift, then he and anyone else who believes such nonsense is living in a netherworld.

First, thank you for today's piece, Mr. Clemons.

Secondly, let's add a little historical balance here. . .

Arafat, the PLO and Fatah gave up their "single bullet" and decided to play ball at Oslo. Let's examine what it got them. After months of impasse, and as the last days of the Clinton Administration passed, the Palestinians were offered a last-minute revised "deal" by the Israelis: a slightly less emaciated, equally cantonized and fragmented, geographic mess (a mere fraction of the 20% of their land over which they were willing to negotiate), all of which probably made our own gerrymandering Tom Delay blush. While the Palestinians have never always been the ideal negotiating partner, neither have the Israelis by any measure. But are the Israelis really looking for a serious negotiating partner or just a negotiated surrender? And let's not be too conveniently forgetful when it comes to acknowledging ALL of the "terrorists" in Israel-Palestine over the past 70 years. Israel has elected her share of murderers of innocent civilians.

Chutzpah: Telling the Israeli government what to do and when to do it, while not even knowing when Passover is.

Doesn't Passover begin at sundown on the 12th? Is it different here and in Israel (I would guess not but do not know)? How long does Passover last?

Regardless, thanks again for the great info Steve.

I have a $1000 bucks on Israel stalling....and using the same old excuses....'we have no partner".."our security" ..ad nausum....clear to me that is what they have done for a decade or more while grabbing more land and resources.

chutzpah! talk about big brass ones... it isn't the Erekat's/PLO's place to initiate or even call for talks -- the duly elected government of the Palestinians is led by Hamas.

You're anticipating the outcome of Israeli elections and telling the Israeli government what they should do and all the time, no one is recognizing that the people that need to come to the table are HAMAS.
You may not like it. You may be buying all the clap trap that "democracy deliverers" like the Bush administration would have you believe, but a democratic election in Palestine by Palestinians elected HAMAS.
It's a new day. You need to sort out your crystal ball from your history book. No one knows how the Israeli election will turn out. We DO know how the Palestinian one turned out. The USSR is gone, the EU is a reality, the United States is not the leader of the truly FREE world (until WE have a truly free election again) and Israel's historic habitual mantra "We don't negotiate with terrorists" has gotten them exactly no where. Certainly no closer to peace. And so has the "we'll throw the Jews into the sea" argument of extremist Islamists.

Yeah okay. New day - new dialog. But maybe the people at the table need to be the parties most effected instead of a bunch of pretenders.

But maybe the people at the table need to be the parties most effected instead of a bunch of pretenders.

I agree. But also blame outside influence.

The whole debate is usually fruitless. If you are for Israelis being able to walk down streets in peace, you are called anti-Arab or imperialist. If you believe there are legitimate greviences that the Palestinians have, you're anti-Semitic. Unfortunately, it has become "axiomatic" that the two are mutually exclusive. I put the blame for this on external lobbies who are trying to push their own interests on the people who are most affected by the violence.

I'm starting to give up holding out hope for genuine peace in the region. And I'm generally one of the more optimistic people.

GO couldn't agree with you more.

The dishonest "power-brokers" (Russia, U.S. especially) they need to butt out.

For the commentator who believes the mythology that Israel was attacked 4 times by Arabs who lost all four times -- you need to study some history a little closer. Poor little "David" was and is funded and armed to the teeth by big brother USA.
Original European Jewish settlers moved indigenous Palestinians off their land in much the same way the white man swindled the Native American's out of their land. The subsequent wars were a logical outgrowth of that fact.
The 1948 "War of Independence" was fought by two sides. Just prior to it, the Israelis conducted a massacre at Palestinian village called Deir Yassin as a demonstration of what they could expect after partition. (see: http://www.deiryassin.org/mh2001.html)
The 1956 war was cooked up by the British, French and US to play with control of the Suez canal. None of 'em liked it when Nasser nationalized it.
In 1967, Egypt's airforce was destroyed on the GROUND in a pre-emptive attack by Israel thanks to US intelligence given to the Israelis. The US provided intelligence that Syrian ("Russian") tanks were massing on the northern border and the Israeli's -- ANTICIPATING an attack from there -- again based on US intelligence - attacked Egypt. None of the U.S. intelligence which triggered the whole mess has ever proven to be accurate.

Those kinds of Cold War games were played by the U.S. and USSR -- and used proxy Israelis and "Arabs" (not really an accurate term since Pan-Arabism never took root and Iraq should never be confused with Egypt -- the two poles of the Pan Arab world in the 60's, and Syria never to be confused with Lebanon or Jordan despite their close proximity. Each of those countries is an artificial creation of the "Great Powers" of Europe having nothing to do with the real cultures on the ground.)
Anyway - Israel's economy would collapse in months too if the U.S. ever did to it what it is doing to the P.A. -- cutting off all aid.
And Jewish "Stern Gang" and "Irgun" once used the very "terrorist" tactics Israel and the U.S. condemn Hamas for in ITS fight for independence.

Israel needs to come to the table as an honest negotiator without their bully big brother.
Will they? Can they?
Not a chance as long as the current U.S. government stands behind them with deep pockets open.
And how are Palestinians to believe that the U.S. "negotiators" are working in the good interest of both parties. Puh-leeze.

Here's the reason we won't be pressing for this any time soon.

To be short I think any type of peace process based on a 2 state solution is dead. Instead a third Intifada seems to be on it's way.

Mr C- and those that want to believe the revisionists being put forth by those such as dwg (above)- the tragedy of this kind of thinking will be put on full display when they attempt to move against Israel. Sure, I would love to see a coming together of the disparate minds in the ME and it would be wonderfull for the "palestinians to achieve a "homeland" but I have to tell you Mr C- your commentary is flawed sir. If by joining together the US and Israel and then attempt to then blame that union for all that has transpired, while attempting to push forward the concept of negotiations with Abbas- you have entered a world that doesn't exist. Abbas is a lame duck Mr C- a bloody lame duck. Why should any negotiations take place with the "leader" of a soundly defeated party! DEFEATED!
And- as has already been posted- "wait for the Israeli population to become a minority! Stop it!

To dwg who suggests I study a little history:

I suggest that its you who needs to study history. Your assertions regarding European Jews moving the Palestinians off their land is interesting history but unfortunately for your arguemnt your knowlege of history is short by about 2000 years.

That land both historically and biblically belonged to the Hebrews until it was occupied by the Romans who renamed the land "Palestine" which was the Roman word for Philistine, the people who were defeated by David and the Israelites in winning the land that is now Israel.When the Jews revolted against Roman rule in 79 AD, they were defeated and forced to leave and scattered to what is now Europe. When the Roman empire fell the land was abandoned. The people now known as the Palestinians, a tribe of Nomadic Arabs squatted on the land for 1000 years and claimed it as their own. When it became part of the British Empire the Jews petioned to have the land which was rightfully theirs returned. The British promised in 1909 that it would be but never fullfilled the promise. In 1947 the UN voted to give them back the land. The fact that the Palestinians lived on land that wasnt rightfully theirs for 1000 years doesnt give them legal ownership as any court of international law will tell you. And if you think the biblical claim of Israel that the land was theirs 2000 years ago is too old to be a valid claim, international law again disagrees with you and quite obviously so do the Arabs since they argue that their claim goes back 1000 years. So you do need to brush up on your history.

whaaaah? was there anything coherent in that post billjpa?

stop what?

tragedy of what kind of thinking will put on display - when WHO moves against Israel?

I see. History and the status of Israel begins at the point where Joshua and his trumpeters blew down Jericho's walls and massacred the inhabitants thereof -- perhaps foreshadowing the example for Deir Yassin. And history has been frozen there for all time?

Have you forgotten that history included the time of the Canaanites who came BEFORE Abraham (Himself wandering in from Iraq still an uncircumcized pagan)? What of the Hittites? The Amelikes, the Assyrians and Babylonians all who swept across what the Hebrews think of as Eretz Israel but over hundreds of thousands of years belonged to many peoples and tribes - including as you say, the Romans, Turks and British. What makes the Tribe of Judah special (except a particular egotistical religious adherence to the Jewish tradition?) and what makes that page of history the last word in the current state of international law?
That would be a little like U.S. Native Americans coming to New York and saying to whitey --- hey we were here first -- get off Manhatten! Valid historical claim? Valid moral claim? Valid legal claim? Maybe. A workable solution? Probably not.

I suggest you brush up on your international law. In 1947 the General Assembly of the UN voted to PARTITION Palestine from Israel and Internationalize Jerusalem. Not "turn it over to the Jews." The UN Security Council has made repeated "binding" resolutions regarding BOTH Israel and Palestine -- which Israel ignores with impunity but Palestine is held to constantly. One area of international law that Israel has been in CONSTANT violation is the building of settlements on occupied territory and related expropriation of land, natural, minerals and water resources. Say what you like -- its illegal and so is that wall they continue to build despite of the recent opinion handed down by the International Court of Justice finding it in violation of international law.

Yes yes I know. Palestinians are terrorists and target poor innocent civilian Israelis with suicide bombs.

What would you call missiles fired - by Israel's citizen-soldiers from helicopters on high - into heavily populated downtown Rafah/Gaza in "targeted assasinations"? Oh yes, of course -- thats national security. Please -- get your news from somewhere other than "fair and balanced" Fox.

Boy, the debate has grown tired. A few years ago, I would have expected to see dozens of comments on a post like this, but now it's just a few people dusting off their Joan Peters vs. a few people talking about quaint concepts like law and property.
I think it's a good sign that more people have grown tired of the old debates. I know that I have. No one is going to respect garbage claims about absolute, god-given property rights anymore, and no-one is going to bat 100% for the "poor Palestinians" either.
I have no sense at all of the direction of events in Israel, but the more internal the negotiations, the better, IMO.

To dwg who seems not to know what the definiton of the word history is:

Yes, those things that ocurred in the past that we call history are frozen there for all time.

Thats why they call it history.

to pooh pooh my argument as "poor palestinians" is to disregard the validity of it.

My point is that one side of this endless conflict is armed to the teeth, financed to the hilt and backed by the might of the all powerful U.S. of A.

It is the endlessness of the conflict that makes it tiresome, not the arguments.

And they are indeed very poor Palestinians. They are undernourished, unfunded and outgunned.

My original - and continuing - point was in response to Steve's post calling for immediate negotiations. No one in the US has any business calling for, participating in or brokering negotiations between the two parties. But ESPECIALLY not between Erekat/PLO/Fatah who clearly do not represent the Palestian government and an as yet to be determined Israeli government.

The Americans are not trusted by the Palestinians. American interference is the cause of the enormous power differential which allows Israel to "negotiate" in bad faith. Real negotiations and any lasting peace will come only when the two fractious parties are FORCED into disengagement by a neutral party. The U.S. is NOT neutral. And the U.S. too must be forced to play by the rules of international law -- which means not rewarding those that break it with military and civilian subsidies.

Such clearly unequal parties can never negotiate in good faith. As long as Israel can successfully bully Palestinians on America's dime, they will. And as long as Palestinians have no hope - they will continue to blow themselves up alongside Israeli men, women and children.
Almost as productive as "tired old arguments" right?
If you think the arguments are tired, try living like that. Now THAT gets tiresome! All that schrapnel, blood, and bits of flesh, bone and scalp flying about when you're trying to shop or waiting for the bus....
Allowed to "negotiate" entirely on an "internal" basis as you would have it will end with the "poor Palestinians" walled up into Gaza and/or a few "relocation camps" in a permanently Occupied West Bank.
Look at a Hydromap of the area and overlay it with the map of major Jewish settlements. Then see if you think Israel REALLY plans to give up any settlements or the roads that control them.... There's a fresh water acquifier that the entire region needs to SHARE there. Sharon is a mean man, but not a stupid one. He knew exactly what he was doing as Minister of Housing and then as Prime Minister.

Gaza has nothing the Israelis wanted - just a fractious, difficult to control refugee population. Of COURSE they withdrew from there.

Quaint concepts of Law and Property rights? Get real. We're talking about people's lives for god's sake.

Dwg,
Re-read my comment. That sentence you are upset about did not refer to you.

Oh sorry, Dwg
I see that you have no sense of irony whatsoever. I just read your last sentence.
I don't think it is too hard to divine my sympathies. Try harder before you get upset, next time.

I don't get upset at individual sympathies one way or another (nor do I think they are clear from your post, but that's immaterial). And no, I generally don't grasp irony when its overwhelmed by tragedy. I actually kind of resent that anyone might presume to understand MY sympathies from these posts.

I admit that I get upset when people forget that the situation in Israel/Palestine (or Darfur, or Congo, or East Timor, or Balochistan or where the hell ever) is not simply an esoteric matter of "arguments" or positions or policies. It is a matter of many people's very existence. The longer the problem persists, the more suffering ensues. At a deeper level, the longer it continues in M.E., the longer we in the rest of the world will suffer.

I think of it as analogous to a domestic violence situation: In such instances, a family has not come to blows overnight. Usually it has taken quite a long time of escalating emotional and physical violence before the couple is brought to the attention of the authorities -- usually only through the intervention of a desperate, hopeless party or a neighbor tired of the noise and ruckus. To remedy a violent family situation the FIRST thing that has to happen is the physical removal of one party or another for a cooling down period. Often a restraining order is required to keep them apart. Then, either couseling and negotiation helps repair the relationship, or litigation for permanent separation and settlement ensues or a combination of those two.
In the case of Israel/Palestine - there has never been a successful cooling off period - no restraining order enforced by a police force or neutral judicial officer. e.g. UN or EU troops enforcing a disengagement and guaranteeing the security of BOTH parties.

Instead, hot-heads and in-laws keep interfering in the argument about what is best for the security of one party and ignoring almost entirely the basic survival needs of the other.
Doomed to failure.
When intervention fails you have domestic violence incidents that end in homicide (or suicide).
Israel and Palestinians must be separated by neutral international FORCE not by conditions set out and enforced by the stronger party or their big brother. That's like letting an abusive husband dictate the terms of the restraining order against him.

And for the definition of history -- frozen is far too close a term to Mr. Fukayama's "dead" history -- a neo-con principle that makes as much sense as the rest of their crackpot ideas. History is a long lens -- a narrative, a story without beginning or end. It is analyzed over time but never frozen. Only the facts are frozen, we divine the truth through historical interpretation.