Lemme guess....... off the record was...... criticism of Bush and his response to Saudi communiques addressed directly to him?

Tsk, tsk, tsk, Reuters; no more invites to salons for viands.

Prince Turki was speaking a language foreign to Bush: "balance(s) the interests of all the conflicting parties in such a way that they all feel they have achieved something of importance without a loss of face."

No, not a reasonable solution! Bush, Israel, and the neo-cons are only interested in negotiating the terms of surrender. According to them, it's better to destroy the whole Middle East than give a crum to our enemies. Otherwise, we'll be perceived as weak.

Being bogged down in Iraq and Lebanon is not weakness? Apparently not in the age of spin and denial.

When he said that other Arab countries in the ME would have great difficulty sustaining their pro US relations if the US/Isr path did not change was he talking about about Saudi?

I really do not see how they could maintain their present perch if the US/Isr agression expands.

Israel' problem with Lebanon seems to arrise because Leabanon is a weak, onconsolidated state. It seems that the result of Israel's incursion will be that Lebanon will become united in it's rage over the invasion. Hmm...does that mean now Lebanon will become a united, consolidated state, one that Israel can deal with? Is that the idea behind all this?

Jon Stopa

Question: is it accurate or inaccurate to compare the situation of the Palestinians with that of the American Indian a few hundred years ago?

Steve, will you be posting on the Bolton nomination news (confirmation vote being put off until after September recess)?

Does Condi understand that the neos are comming in for the kill? Does Bush get that Olmert is dis-ing him big time?

Colin Powell sits back and lights a cigar.

the neocons had the best opportunity to solve the middle east crisis after 9/11/01. They abdicvated the role of peacemaker to avail themselves of a perfect excuse to make war. Don't kid yourselves that their intentions have changed simply because of some children who became collateral damage. Full speed ahead, into world war. Consequences be damned!

What I'd really like to know from Prince Turki al Faisal is what he learned from years as the head of Saudi's intelligence service.

Steve, I don't know how seriously you regard Gerald Posner and his book "While America Slept", but there are some pretty explosive suggestions about Prince Turki al-Faisal in there.

For more, see...
http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/000045.html

What the hell, here's the excerpt

The Rosetta Stone of 9/11?: The Saudi-Pakistani-bin Ladin Triangle -- revealed apparently in Gerald Posner's Why America Slept, and discussed here in this Time magazine review.

Time writes:

"Abu Zubaydah's capture and interrogation...did not just take down one of al-Qaeda's most wanted operatives but also unexpectedly provided what one U.S. investigator told Posner was 'the Rosetta stone of 9/11 ... the details of what (Zubaydah) claimed was his 'work' for senior Saudi and Pakistani officials.' The tale begins at 2 a.m. on March 28, 2002, when U.S. surveillance pinpointed Zubaydah in a two-story safe house in Pakistan. Commandos rousted out 62 suspects, one of whom was seriously wounded while trying to flee. A Pakistani intelligence officer and hastily made voiceprints quickly identified the injured man as Zubaydah.

"Posner elaborates in startling detail how U.S. interrogators used drugs...in a chemical version of reward and punishment to make Zubaydah talk. When questioning stalled, according to Posner, CIA men flew Zubaydah to an Afghan complex fitted out as a fake Saudi jail chamber, where 'two Arab-Americans, now with Special Forces,' pretending to be Saudi inquisitors, used drugs and threats to scare him into more confessions.

"Yet when Zubaydah was confronted by the false Saudis, writes Posner, 'his reaction was not fear, but utter relief.' Happy to see them, he reeled off telephone numbers for a senior member of the royal family who would, said Zubaydah, 'tell you what to do.' The man at the other end would be Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, a Westernized nephew of King Fahd's and a publisher better known as a racehorse owner. His horse War Emblem won the Kentucky Derby in 2002. To the amazement of the U.S., the numbers proved valid. When the fake inquisitors accused Zubaydah of lying, he responded with a 10-minute monologue laying out the Saudi-Pakistani-bin Laden triangle.

"Zubaydah, writes Posner, said the Saudi connection ran through Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime intelligence chief. Zubaydah said bin Laden 'personally' told him of a 1991 meeting at which Turki agreed to let bin Laden leave Saudi Arabia and to provide him with secret funds as long as al-Qaeda refrained from promoting jihad in the kingdom. The Pakistani contact, high-ranking air force officer Mushaf Ali Mir, entered the equation, Zubaydah said, at a 1996 meeting in Pakistan also attended by Zubaydah. Bin Laden struck a deal with Mir, then in the military but tied closely to Islamists in Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (isi), to get protection, arms and supplies for al-Qaeda. Zubaydah told interrogators bin Laden said the arrangement was 'blessed by the Saudis.'

"Zubaydah said he attended a third meeting in Kandahar in 1998 with Turki, senior ISI agents and Taliban officials. There Turki promised, writes Posner, that 'more Saudi aid would flow to the Taliban, and the Saudis would never ask for bin Laden's extradition, so long as al-Qaeda kept its long-standing promise to direct fundamentalism away from the kingdom.'

"In Posner's stark judgment, the Saudis 'effectively had (bin Laden) on their payroll since the start of the decade.' Zubaydah told the interrogators that the Saudis regularly sent the funds through three royal-prince intermediaries he named.

Have been reading the good blogs for days and have yet to see an analysis of the rovian election strategy at play in the attack on Lebanon.
Israel is obviously the giant wedge between the Democratic Party leadership and pundits (totally cowed by AIPAC) and the Democratic base (naturally repelled by jingoistic militarism). With one deft blow of the IDF mallet Karl has driven this wedge deep into what was barely starting to resemble a challenge to his 4th Reich. Even Howard Dean has felt compelled to made a total ass of himself over the Maliki comments. I would guess that those remarks were penned in the WH, giving a tiny bone to Maliki for his relatively non-existent base while advancing Karl's agenda of demonizing the Shia (the next puppet's probably supposed to be a Sunni anyway) at the same time he slips the Dems a poisoned red herring.
I wish one of the big blog brains would tackle this soon; as usual Karl has a two week lead and appears to be pulling away fast.

World News



The Times July 28, 2006

Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers
From Yonit Farago in Jerusalem



WHILE Israel fights Hezbollah with tanks and aircraft, its supporters are campaigning on the internet.
Israel’s Government has thrown its weight behind efforts by supporters to counter what it believes to be negative bias and a tide of pro-Arab propaganda. The Foreign Ministry has ordered trainee diplomats to track websites and chatrooms so that networks of US and European groups with hundreds of thousands of Jewish activists can place supportive messages.

In the past week nearly 5,000 members of the World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS) have downloaded special “megaphone” software that alerts them to anti-Israeli chatrooms or internet polls to enable them to post contrary viewpoints. A student team in Jerusalem combs the web in a host of different languages to flag the sites so that those who have signed up can influence an opinion survey or the course of a debate.

Jonny Cline, of the international student group, said that Jewish students and youth groups with their understanding of the web environment were ideally placed to present another side to the debate.

“We’re saying to these people that if Israel is being bashed, don’t ignore it, change it,” Mr Cline said. “A poll like CNN’s takes just a few seconds to vote in, but if thousands take part the outcome will be changed. What’s vital is that the international face of the conflict is balanced.”

Doron Barkat, 29, in Jerusalem, spends long nights trawling the web to try to swing the debate Israel’s way. “When I see internet polls for or against Israel I send out a mailing list to vote for Israel,” he said. “It can be that after 15 minutes there will be 400 votes for Israel.

“It’s very satisfying. There are also forums where Lebanese and Israelis talk.”

Israel’s Foreign Ministry must avoid direct involvement with the campaign but is in contact with international Jewish and evangelical Christian groups, distributing internet information packs.

Amir Gissin, the Israeli Foreign Ministry’s public relations director, said: “The internet’s become a leading tool for news, shaping the world view of millions. Our problem is the foreign media shows Lebanese suffering, but not Israeli. We’re bypassing that filter by distributing pictures showing how northern Israelis suffer from Katyusha rocket attacks.”

POA:

it's a conspiracy! i'm a cyber soldier!
bwahahahaha!

seriously, you might want to quit with the paranoia. it's not good for you.

believe it or not, not all people agree with your views on the middle east.

i have nothing to do with WUJS or any other organizaed jewish group, including AIPAC.

"Israel backed by army of cyber-soldiers
From Yonit Farago in Jerusalem"

So? Hard to see what the big deal here is. Most of the criticism of "The Lobby" seems to boil down to the fact that it's effective. People with a certain point of view are effective at getting it out.

Isn't that what EVERY group is trying to do with more or less effectiveness?

Unless you believe that the Israeli perspective should be quashed, it's hard to see your point.

POA:

it's a conspiracy! i'm a cyber soldier!
bwahahahaha!

seriously, you might want to quit with the paranoia. it's not good for you.

believe it or not, not all people agree with your views on the middle east.

i have nothing to do with WUJS or any other organizaed jewish group, including AIPAC.

Posted by david

Are you questioning the truthfullness of the article? If not, why should I assume you ARE NOT one of these cyber Israeli whores? You have certainly thrown away any 'semblance of integrity or human compassion in your endeavors to stroke the Israeli perspective. Isn't it logical to assume that such a characterless defense would logically be the result of reading from a script?

Look, a "conspiracy theory" is an unproven event. My "paranoia", as you put it, is not about an "unproven event". I posted an article, and instead of disputing the article, you referred to "conspiracy" and "paranoia". Me thinks you doth protest too much. If you have information that disputes or disproves the article, lets see it. If not, you might want to ponder about the message your personal attack sends.

(BTW, your response was right on script, expected, and foreseeable, as was "MP"'s.)

As was yours.